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number9
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, ME
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: Does a CCW override the Gun Free School Zones Act? |
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I am wondering about this with the advent of the horrible shootings today in Va. I saw on a regional forum that CCW permits override the GFSZA, enabling you to carry on a campus. Does anyone know if this is true or not as a federal rule, or is it state-by-state?
My thoughts and prayers, etc.  |
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helmetcase
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I know the rule in VA is that I can carry there as a non-student, but a student can't. Stupid, really... |
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number9
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Well that is... weird. I'll try looking up the Maine statutes for carrying again, as well as my school's policy. But I don't recall seeing anything on it the last time I looked? |
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helmetcase
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Maine's a pretty good state...is packing.org back up yet? |
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number9
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it is. However, the rules are kind of difficult to interpret. The closest thing I can get to a prohibition is this:
"1. Prohibition. A person may not possess a firearm on public school property or discharge a firearm within 500 feet of school property.[1989, c. 414, §13 (amd).]"
I don't know what they define as "public school", I go to a state-system college so I don't know how they'd interpret that. I have read through the ~ 34-page handbook they give to CCW carriers, there is no mention in that document (entitled "State of Maine laws relating to permits to Carry Concealed Firearms") of prohibitions regarding either schools or colleges.
I'd like to say it's moot, but I'd need to consult a lawyer first. |
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number9
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Well, according to my school there is a no-weapons policy on all campus grounds (including the car park):
| Quote: | Dangerous weapons, including, but not limited to, firearms, bows, arrows, rockets, sling shots, air guns, martial arts weapons, and sharp-edged weapons are not permitted on property owned by or under the control of the institution and off-campus activity sponsored by the institution.
Any exception must be approved by the Chief of the Institution's Police Department and shall be subject to such terms and conditions as the Chief shall deem reasonable.
Any member of the institution community who violates this policy shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action up to and including dismissal from the institution, and/or arrest and criminal prosecution.
Any person who is not a member of the institution community who violates this policy shall be notified at once of the violation orally or in writing as soon as possible after the discovery. The person may be subject to all appropriate procedures and penalties including, but not limited to, the application of the criminal provisions of the law of the State of Maine. |
I guess I could ask the Chief of Police for permission, but I don't know if they'd be receptive. Maine is a shall-issue state, but obviously his/her discretion is what counts here: just saying "I have a CCW and want to carry at school" is probably not going to be enough, they would probably only do it for LEOs. But it can't hurt to ask... |
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kengrubb
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Puyallup, WA (home of The Fair)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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IIRC, the original statute went up to the SCOTUS, was struck down, and a less onerous one later passed. State laws in essence dictate whether a CCW holder can or cannot carry at school.
Here in Washington, it's permissible to carry while "picking up or dropping off a student", but you cannot carry into the actual building. One is also cautioned not to linger.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280
A small tweak to 9.41.280, and I could carry into my son's school when I go in for parent-teacher conferences, go in to volunteer, et al.
_________________
Ken Grubb
Puyallup, WA |
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number9
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if I should place this in General Discussion or not, but I'll post it here for now. I got this (mass) email from my school this morning about what to do if a Va. Tech.-like situation ever goes down:
| Quote: | Dear Community Members,
We all have been deeply affected by the tragic events at Virginia Tech.
This communication is intended to provide information about the College
Police Department's readiness to respond should College be confronted with a
campus violence situation. Please remember, to report suspicious behavior,
call College Police at 911 from on campus land lines, and xxx-xxxx from cell
phones. Please take a moment now to program that number into your cell phones.
Threatening situations involving firearms are dynamic in nature and can
change from second to second, requiring police officers to take quick
and decisive action, but also to change that action as the
circumstances unfold. College Police officers, many of whom have had
experience or entire careers at municipal or county law enforcement
agencies prior to assuming duties at College, receive ongoing training on
how to mitigate circumstances surrounding threats to our campuses.
Without giving so much detail that it would compromise police operations and
our response, here are some plans that are in place and will be utilized
should the need arise.
* At the first report of a person with a firearm on campus, Dispatch
will notify our officers and call surrounding law enforcement agencies
to respond. These communications will occur before any others. The College
Police Department has developed strong relationships with area law
enforcement agencies. We have been training with departments for these
types of incidents, and three SWAT teams will be available to us. There
will be a convergence of officers from several different agencies, and
every effort will be made to stop the threat as soon as possible.
* Trained hostage negotiators are available if that need is present.
* Independent of police actions, the College Critical Incident Response
Team will assemble and deal with a host of issues, including
communications to students, faculty, staff, the general public and the
media.
College has a strict "no weapons on campus" policy. It has been suggested
that allowing people with concealed firearm permits to carry their
weapons on campus could help prevent a tragedy. This is highly
questionable. The response from police will be swift and precise.
Officers have trained for these situations and are recognizable to each
other as police even if in plain clothes. Police will consider that
there may be more than one shooter involved, so any person with a gun
other than police will be considered to be a suspect, armed and
dangerous. Delayed deployment of police resources due to the possibility
of an armed person other than the shooter(s) or police being present
could result in death or great bodily injury that would not have
occurred otherwise. This is an added element that is not conducive to
the optimal police response for our community.
What to do if faced with a person with a gun, or you hear that one is
on campus or in close proximity to campus:
* Lock down in the nearest room. This means shut and lock the door,
barricade it if possible and there's time to do so, and then take cover
or crouch along a solid wall, out of sight of anyone who might look in
the door window or fire rounds through the door. Stay there until you
receive word FROM POLICE that the threat no longer exists. Do not try
to run away if you are in a building, as you will draw attention to yourself
and become more of a target in most situations.
Lock down is different than lock out. Lock down is described above,
and lock out means to lock the entrances and exits of buildings. Lock
out is not preferable in most circumstances, as it will likely hamper
police operations.
The Critical Incident Response Team and College Police, in conjunction with local
agencies, will be reviewing all related protocols regarding response to threats
or acts of violence on or in close proximity to our campuses.
If you have questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank
you. |
My school is small, split up over 2 campuses it has 11,000 students. I've been there for ~ 18 months, and in my time have seen a total of one unarmed campus cop, and that was on a day when some students called in a bomb threat to get out of taking a final. Somehow, I am not feeling reassured.  |
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Xela
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 81
Location: D/FW, TX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Damn |
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That is one sad plan. But we are no better in our area.
Xela |
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number9
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Xela: Yeah, it's pretty shitty. But I'll see what I can do, maybe if I stir up some intelligent points I may get some traction with it... |
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C. lupus baileyi
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Lacey, WA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Regarding Washington state law, RCW 9.41.280 applies only to institutions of primary and secondary education, i.e. elementary, middle and high schools. It does not apply to institutions for tertiary education, i.e. (community) colleges and universities, and that cuts both ways.
For example, I attend The Evergreen State College in Olympia. Evergreen is a state-run college, and its social contract is state law (Washington Administrative Code, Section 174-120-035. The contract prohibits students, employees and vistors from bringing a weapon onto college grounds (including the parking lots), except to directly check it into the care of police services, and you need to file a written request with the chief to have your weapon retained.
This seems somewhat at odds with RCW 9.41.300 which lists locations where one may not have a firearm in one's possession (and in a number of the locations listed there, exceptions are made for CPL holders or a pistol kept "unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper"), since tertiary education facilities (starte-run or otherwise) are not listed in that section. In combination with the state preemption law, it then becomes a question which counts more: the RCW or the WAC?
Keeps lawyers in business, I guess.
_________________
"Our society is no longer imaginable without gun violence. All too often during muggings and robberies, a firearm is used to threaten." - Dutch regional police report, 2005
Member: HRW, ACLU, SAF, NRA |
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C. lupus baileyi
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Lacey, WA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I just found out that it is legal to carry concealed on campus at Evergreen (providing you have a WA CPL, or another state's CCW that is recognized in WA). It's just that the college prefers not to openly ackowledge that fact. Yay for the state constitution.
_________________
"Our society is no longer imaginable without gun violence. All too often during muggings and robberies, a firearm is used to threaten." - Dutch regional police report, 2005
Member: HRW, ACLU, SAF, NRA |
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